governing? >> there's certainly similari similariti similarities. when you're president of the united states, you need to do persuading. there are certain skill sets in common. one of the big differences when you campaign, you can be pretty vague and you can hedge. when you're governing, you have to make choices, and you've got to make decisions that have real policy implications. that's the big difference. >> can you name people who ran bad campaigns and were good presidents, and then people who ran good campaigns. >> i suspect the example of someone running a good campaign but not good as president might be lyndon johnson in '64. he ran a very powerful campaign and won 62%, 63% of the vote but didn't govern effectively. >> you know, john, i think it was sydney bloomentha hal who described it, but the process is eternal. it's endless. i kind of wonder when we talk about the connection between campaign skills and governing skills, if came paining is permanent, it's political too. you understand